Comments on: Research Relieves http://blog.ericw.org/2010/02/research-relieves/ live, love, hurt Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:23:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Eric Will http://blog.ericw.org/2010/02/research-relieves/#comment-9 Eric Will Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:35:59 +0000 http://pain.ericw.org/?p=38#comment-9 <p>It's notable that I'm not just for medical animal research because it relieves my suffering, but because it helps save lives. There are much farther-reaching research than opioid studies. Cancer studies, etc. The hospital we both work in probably has more animal testing in any single place than anywhere else on the planet.</p> <p>Even <em>if</em> I didn't directly benefit from it, and I didn't care about the other medical benefits, I still probably wouldn't be against it. You're a vegetarian because you don't like animal husbandry, etc. You're against animal testing for the same reason. I eat meat, and I don't care about animal testing for the same reason.</p> <p>I far from advocate the needless suffering of anything. I love animals, and I've had a great many pets through my lifetime and I've loved them all. If someone out there is causing an animal to suffer and not providing relief or getting anything out of it, they're sick bastards.</p> It’s notable that I’m not just for medical animal research because it relieves my suffering, but because it helps save lives. There are much farther-reaching research than opioid studies. Cancer studies, etc. The hospital we both work in probably has more animal testing in any single place than anywhere else on the planet.

Even if I didn’t directly benefit from it, and I didn’t care about the other medical benefits, I still probably wouldn’t be against it. You’re a vegetarian because you don’t like animal husbandry, etc. You’re against animal testing for the same reason. I eat meat, and I don’t care about animal testing for the same reason.

I far from advocate the needless suffering of anything. I love animals, and I’ve had a great many pets through my lifetime and I’ve loved them all. If someone out there is causing an animal to suffer and not providing relief or getting anything out of it, they’re sick bastards.

]]> By: Stephen Belcher http://blog.ericw.org/2010/02/research-relieves/#comment-8 Stephen Belcher Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:15:09 +0000 http://pain.ericw.org/?p=38#comment-8 <p>As I said in response to your comment on my blog, it's not really possible to argue with someone who benefits from the animal testing that they should continue to suffer so another creature can live. Of course, without animal testing, it probably wouldn't be alive in the first place. We breed animals in far greater numbers than would naturally occur specifically for the purpose of cutting them open.</p> <p>It's far easier to argue the merits of said testing when you or someone you know is benefiting from it in some way. Ultimately, if no one you knew got better for it, it'd be harder to engender the same powerful feelings of support. I don't mean to tell you that you're wrong for feeling that way; after all, it's only natural.</p> <p>I'm just strange in that I feel empathy for all things in roughly equal amounts. Most people feel more strongly for other humans, whereas I simply see it as a function of us having a critical mass of more similar DNA than that which we share with other animals on this planet to ensure we feel that way. Our brains process math, sociology, arts and all these other things that make us "more" than them, but I still can't shake the feeling that it's just an illusion; we're nothing more than slightly more complex iterations of the same basic idea.</p> <p>It's terrible that people feel the pain that they do, and were I granted omnipotence it'd be one of those things I'd take away. But in the meantime, treating pain for you requires inflicting pain on others. I can't convince you that a rat is worth as much as you are, and most people would be convinced that I'm insane for even suggesting the possibility. That's probably best for the survival of our species on the whole, but as hard as it is to convince you to change your feelings, it is probably as hard to convince me.</p> <p>Sorry that I didn't respond to the substantive medical parts of your post, the science-y bits just flew completely over my head. I caught a bit here and there thanks to your repeated attempts to explain the neurochemistry behind opioids, but it's all still a bit fuzzy in my head.</p> As I said in response to your comment on my blog, it’s not really possible to argue with someone who benefits from the animal testing that they should continue to suffer so another creature can live. Of course, without animal testing, it probably wouldn’t be alive in the first place. We breed animals in far greater numbers than would naturally occur specifically for the purpose of cutting them open.

It’s far easier to argue the merits of said testing when you or someone you know is benefiting from it in some way. Ultimately, if no one you knew got better for it, it’d be harder to engender the same powerful feelings of support. I don’t mean to tell you that you’re wrong for feeling that way; after all, it’s only natural.

I’m just strange in that I feel empathy for all things in roughly equal amounts. Most people feel more strongly for other humans, whereas I simply see it as a function of us having a critical mass of more similar DNA than that which we share with other animals on this planet to ensure we feel that way. Our brains process math, sociology, arts and all these other things that make us “more” than them, but I still can’t shake the feeling that it’s just an illusion; we’re nothing more than slightly more complex iterations of the same basic idea.

It’s terrible that people feel the pain that they do, and were I granted omnipotence it’d be one of those things I’d take away. But in the meantime, treating pain for you requires inflicting pain on others. I can’t convince you that a rat is worth as much as you are, and most people would be convinced that I’m insane for even suggesting the possibility. That’s probably best for the survival of our species on the whole, but as hard as it is to convince you to change your feelings, it is probably as hard to convince me.

Sorry that I didn’t respond to the substantive medical parts of your post, the science-y bits just flew completely over my head. I caught a bit here and there thanks to your repeated attempts to explain the neurochemistry behind opioids, but it’s all still a bit fuzzy in my head.

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